I'm in my 4th year. I've interned at MSR, Google Brain, FAIR, and this upcoming summer, Amazon. I have a good pub record, great connections, top names on my thesis committee, and I suppose I'm on track for a stellar PhD. However, I've come to the point where I think the PhD and academia at large is a joke. My intellectual curiosity is dead, and all I want is to make a ton of money. I'm having serious doubts about whether it's worth finishing the PhD, or if I should just quit now and start the money making journey. I'm also a bit older (35), as I had a late start, and this is a big factor in my thinking about quitting. Has anyone quit their PhD when they were relatively close to finishing it, and do you have any regrets for not sticking it out? Are my prospects severely diminished without the PhD given just an MSc and a solid pub record + top group experiences? Even if I finish the PhD, I wouldn't aim for RS positions. I like programming - I hate story telling. At most, I'd be aiming for RSWE. TC: peanuts (yay grad school)
If all you care about is money, why did you go the PhD route in the first place? Rather than a guaranteed payday, I think most people who get a PhD are aiming for more interesting work. (It can get you into academia and industry research labs, but those jobs don't necessarily pay any better than any other industry job.)
My priorities changed along the way. If I could do it over again, I would have quit as soon as I finished the MSc. I just don't find research to be interesting, and everything is so infused with politics anymore that nothing even feels like a proper scientific research environment. If you don't toe the line, you're done. I've witnessed this first hand at Google Brain, for example.
Sadly, "politics" are going to be a fact of life pretty much any route you take. If you go academic, you will have grant proposals and tenure letters to contend with. (In many sub-fields of CS, there are a few top names, and you end up having to impress these folks enough to get a positive letter.) In large companies (research or product), you will have to please your bosses. I've never started my own company, but I understand VC funding can also be a game of politics (getting plugged into the right network and selling yourself and your ideas to the right people). At the end of the day, it's up to you to decide what is important, but you definitely won't escape the political game if you pivot away from research and into product development.
If you're sure you won't come back to academia, move to the industry as soon as you can. I finished my PhD, being unaware of just how underpaid we were comparing to the industry (I finished in 2013 and didn't have much insight into industry compensations). The first offer I got, I couldn't believe it. My first thought was that they mistook me for a genius. But now I'm so used to industry compensation that it makes me laugh when I look back at those years in academia, working till 10 pm and getting half a peanut 🥜
I feel you so hard on this. Got my PhD in 2014 and had no idea how severely underpaid we were (I was making barely above the poverty line at an Ivy League as a post-doc w/ 80 hr work weeks). SOOOOO glad to get out of academia.
Assuming you are a PhD in US, If you are a citizen or green card just quit immediately as it's definitely not worth spending anytime in academia. If you are in a visa then suck it up and finish it since degree will play a major role in Green card processing.
For the sake of a different perspective: it’s just one year out and 300k doesn’t mean much if you work 20 years, over which u earn more and more. Your age also doesn’t matter. Think of yourself when you started. Did you get what you wanted? Would that you drop the last year for 1 year of compensation? From your description only , it feels like a more “grass is greener on the other side” mentality. Also, once you reach a certain level (> senior), story telling skills are a must as you have to lead a lot of people, no matter for scientist or engineer. Regarding income as industry MLE, having a PhD definitely helps (but is not a must) as it indicates that you have solid skills in ML. Gives you better title, level, and perception (for people who don’t know shit) head start.
PhD is for life time... just one more year; sail through...
I was in same position as yours though I was 11 years younger than you. I didn't quit and there is nothing I got out of it except the title
I vote to finish the PhD, given that you’re name dropping top tier companies, a famous ML researcher, and a desire for big TC. Can you imagine working on a team in 4 yrs being the only non-PhD? Are you the type of person who’s going to make sure they tell everyone “well I was all-but-dissertation” in every circumstance you get? That kind of regret can weigh you down much more than a missed year of salary.
more like - can you bear the pride and feeling of accomplishment by being the only one who made it there without a stupid title and a bunch of wasted time?
> At most, I'd be aiming for RSWE. If you decide to quit, do take a Master's. Many RS at FB, Amazon only have Master's. In research, reputation (papers, citations, networking) >> degree, so nobody will care. Some minor disadvantages: + a PhD may give you better chance for immigration in the US. O1 doesn't require lottery, and EB1(B) is very fast (2 months in my case). + After 10 years, if you earn ton of money, and just want to help building the Mars rover. You will find that NASA only allows PhD holders to be principal investigator, and leads the project. + You can't show to your kids that you did PhD at that awesome school. You made a bad example of quitting mid-way :)
Thanks for your input! I already picked up my master's along the way, so I'm good there. I also already have citizenship in US. My partner of 15 years and I have also decided to never have kids, so that also won't be a consideration. Your point about NASA is spot on though and something I need to think very carefully about. Thank you!
I'm telling you my dream ;)
Just finish it , 20 years down the line the 200k that you are losing won’t matter. You have spent 4 yrs already so just finish it.
I have 2/3 pieces for the thesis. All my other pubs were projects that do not fall under the purview of my thesis. One more year means another $200k+ lost, one more year of renting rather than owning, one more year of not having stocks, etc. I still haven't come up with the 3rd piece of the dissertation, and I feel so exhausted I don't know how I could possibly muster the energy to finish. Will not having the PhD significantly impact my income? That's all I really care about.
That's great you've been happily working on interesting problems for so long! I really hope my interest will return to me once the PhD is finished. I actually have a really great and sociable relationship with my PhD advisor. However, he is one of the top people in his field (if you track ML, you've heard of him), and he has very high expectations of his students; my remaining requirements are set in stone, unfortunately. And I have no doubts that my thesis will be immediately forgotten, which is part of the problem in terms of motivation. I don't see the point and it's really just more mindless hoops to jump through. Science is nothing like I envisioned it (nor are scientists the shining beacons of intellect and critical thought I once believed). I guess this is an existential crises I'm having. Either way, I appreciate your thoughts and insight!